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Best Of 2021: In Epically Nerdy Interview, Elon Musk Discusses Build Quality Problems With Engineer Who Compared Model 3 To ‘A Kia In The ’90s’

Tesla’s CEO then fesses up to his company’s build-related mistakes and dives into why they’ve been happening. When asked about panel gaps, Musk says: “It took [Tesla] a while to…iron out the production process,” going on to discuss how the company struggled to get details right while production was in “vertical climb mode.” Really early production cars, and the cars that come out after production has leveled off, Musk says, are the ones likely to have the best fit and finish.

Munro, having met with a number of Tesla owners during a recent road trip, noticed variations between two vehicles built in the same short time-span. Confused as to how this could happen, he asked Musk. “We actually did improve gap and paint quality quite a bit towards the end of last year,” the California-based engineer-CEO told the Michigan-based engineer-CEO, “Even in the course of December.”

Musk also mentions that while ramping up production, his team rushed cars in a way that didn’t adequately allow paint to dry, causing issues with quality. “Production is hell,” Musk puts it frankly.

What about the rear part of the Model 3’s body, which Munro criticized for consisting of far too many pieces with far too many different fastening methods? (shown below):

Image for article titled Best Of 2021: In Epically Nerdy Interview, Elon Musk Discusses Build Quality Problems With Engineer Who Compared Model 3 To 'A Kia In The '90s'

The image above shows this problem on an early Model 3 build, though Munro’s 2021 model does show some improvement. For example, there are now 17 spot welds on one particular plate instead of 26 on the old car, and there’s one fewer bolt. Oddly, though, even newer Model 3s don’t share the Model Y’s more intuitive “mega-casting” rear wheelhouse — i.e. a single piece instead of various panels fastened together.

Musk discusses this Model 3 design weakness.

“The organizational structure errors, they manifest themselves in the product,” he begins. “We’ve got probably the best material science team in the world at Tesla. Engineers would ask what’s the best material for this purpose…and they got like 50 different answers. And they’re all true individually, but they were not true collectively,” he admits.

“When you try to join all these dissimilar alloys…you’ve got gaps that you’ve got to seal, and you’ve got to join these things, and some of them need to be joined with rivets, some of them need to be joined with spot welds, some of them need to be joined with resin or resin and spot welds,” he continues.

“Frankly, it looks like a bit of a Frankenstein situation when you look at it all together.” Musk then talks about how sealing the gaps between the different pieces in the body is a nightmare. “That might be the most painful job in the factory, is spackling on the sealant,” he describes, mentioning how even a small error can cause leaks and NVH problems.

Munro asks why newer Model 3s still make use of such a multipiece rear body design instead of a single casting like on the Model Y. “It’s hard to change the wheels on the bus when it’s going 80 mph down the highway,” Musk responds, saying the Model 3 represents such a large portion of the automaker’s volume that the company “[needs] an opportunity to redo the factory without blowing up the cashflow.”

He talks about how important going to a single-piece casting was for the Model Y: There are no gaps, there’s no sealant and there’s no risk of galvanic corrosion at the interface of dissimilar metals. That choice alone, Musks says, allowed Tesla to reduce its body shop size by 30 percent. “We got rid of 300 robots just with that rear body casting,” he tells Munro.

Musk then discusses with Munro the plans for Tesla to move to a structural battery pack that leverages the individual cells as structural elements that resist shear forces. “The cells today in every car are carried like a sack of potatoes,” Musk explains. “They actually have negative structural value,” going on to say how today, cells don’t make vehicles any more rigid, and that especially because there is isolation material needed between the cells themselves and the pack housing to help the batteries handle shock loads, batteries are just a liability from a mass standpoint. Musk wants to change that, and get dual use from those batteries.

The rest of the interview remains thoroughly nerdy. There’s discussion about cars’ natural frequencies, about how reducing polar moment of inertia by bringing mass toward the car’s center of mass yields better handling. There’s discussion about tolerance stack-up and how that leads Tesla to almost always err toward fewer pieces and Lego-like parts precision.

Munro mentions his company’s BMW i3 findings, lauding the German automaker’s excellent build quality for the carbon-fiber body. Musk replies that one of his major concerns about use of carbon fiber is that it has a vastly different coefficient of thermal expansion than aluminum or steel, and this can cause fitment issues when the vehicle is subjected to certain thermal environments.

Musk also talks about how Tesla’s casting sizes on the Model S and X were limited because heat treatment led to shape distortion once the part reached a certain size. To facilitate larger castings, Musk states, company’s material scientists had to make a custom alloy that didn’t require an additional treating step after casting.

Musk also mentions that he wants to do away with 12-volt systems on EVs — a holdover from earlier designs and a way to easily integrate already-existing components from prominent auto suppliers. A 48-volt system, Musk and Munro agree, could have lots of benefits including reduced wire size and weight. Musk mentions that the S and X are now getting lithium-ion 12-volt batteries, which add capacity and last longer than traditional lead-acid ones.

The discussion concludes with talk about the future of EVs and the speed with which they will enter the marketplace in coming years. There’s also talk about shortsellers because of course there is.

Throughout the interview, especially in the beginning, Munro compliments Tesla’s excellent seats, with Musk talking about how the key is to reduce pressure peaks on the body. The two enginerds examine the value of making seats in-house versus buying them from suppliers.

It’s all nerdy and fascinating, and in some ways, a truly magical moment between two total math and science geeks. I love it. I also love how, when Munro says he was having issues with Tesla’s Autopilot driver-assistance system because of bad road markings in Texas, Musk straight-up says: “Even if the road is painted completely wrong and a UFO lands in the middle of the road, the car still cannot crash and still needs to do the right thing…It can’t be dependent upon the road markings being correct….It’s just gotta be ‘no matter what, it’s not gonna crash.’”

The whole interview is just gold. I talked with Munro & Associate’s president Cory Steuben, and he told me about how this interview even came to be. Steuben and Munro are in the middle of a road trip right now in a Model 3 that they spontaneously decided to purchase.

The two planned a trip out west to see some EV automakers, and hung out in Fremont to see if Musk would be there. He wasn’t. Serendipitously, Steuben received an email from an individual saying he could set up an interview with Musk. Musk’s assistant, at 11 p.m. on Monday, scheduled an interview in Boca Chica, Texas for Friday, but by that time, Steuben and Munro were in Eugene, Oregon.

So Steuben and Munro had to bee-line it 2,500 miles, 40 hours in the Model 3, planning charging stations and really putting electromobility to the ultimate test in driving from Oregon all the way to Texas to see the king of EVs himself, Elon Musk.

Luckily, Steuben and Munro made their meeting, with the former saying the billionaire came off as “one of the most enjoyable, humble, stoic…people that I’ve met who’s in a position like that.”

Musk, Steuben said, spent three hours with the two engineers from Michigan, and was seen working at 10:30 p.m. on a Friday.

As if the interview weren’t epic enough on its own.

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Battery Swap Stations Are Gaining Momentum In China

The simplest and most genius-brain solution to charging times and range with EVs isn’t one you’ll find in America. In China, though, it’s gaining ground. All that and more in The Morning Shift for June 2, 2021.

1st Gear: China Is An Alternate Universe For EVs

China is like the American car market in so many ways. It’s huge, for one, (the biggest in the world while we’re number two) and filled with people inexplicably buying sedans and not hatchbacks or wagons. It’s also the biggest market for electric cars in the world, and you see as many Teslas bopping around Shanghai as you do here in New York or Los Angeles.

But China also offers us a market where GM builds small, adorable, unbelievably popular EVs as opposed to 9,000-pound hulking Hummers for the rich. It feels like an alternate reality where everyone takes EVs as a given, not as a radical tech.

This is a long intro to the point that battery-swapping stations are taking off there, as noted in this overview story by Automotive News China:

Until 2019, state-owned BAIC Motor Co. and EV startup Nio were the only two automakers offering battery swap services for customers.

[…]

Competition from Tesla and Nio’s success in gaining customers with battery swap services have prompted other Chinese EV makers to take bold steps.

[…]

While Geely is constructing battery swap stations on its own, other Chinese automakers have opted to build facilities along with domestic companies to share costs.

In September, state-owned Changan Automobile Co. launched its first battery swap station in Chongqing along with a consortium of other major domestic companies.

The partner companies include CATL, China’s largest EV battery maker; Aulton New Energy Vehicle Technology Co., a Shanghai-based battery swap station operator; and State Grid, a state-owned power grid operator.

In March, SAIC Motor Corp., another major state-owned automaker, also teamed up with Aulton to kick off operation of the first battery swap station for its EVs.

Aiways, an EV startup, tapped Blue Part Smart Energy, an EV charging facility operator under BAIC, in April to offer battery swap services.

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This is all interesting to see from an American perspective, especially one based out of New York City. Around the turn of the century, NYC was home to the largest electric car company in the world, the Electric Vehicle Company, and it operated using battery-swapping stations right in the middle of Manhattan. The tech is basic. We could go down this route if we wanted to.

2nd Gear: Another Tesla Recall

Some 6,000 Tesla Model 3 and Model Ys are getting recalled for loose brake caliper bolts, as Reuters reports:

Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is recalling nearly 6,000 U.S. vehicles because brake caliper bolts could be loose, with the potential to cause a loss of tire pressure, documents made public on Wednesday show.

The recall covers certain 2019-2021 Model 3 vehicles and 2020-2021 Model Y vehicles. Tesla’s filing with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said it had no reports of crashes or injuries related to the issue and that the company will inspect and tighten, or replace, the caliper bolts as necessary.

Tesla said that loose caliper bolts could allow the brake caliper to separate and contact the wheel rim, which could cause a loss of tire pressure in “very rare circumstances.” The company said that, in the “unlikely event” there is vehicle damage from a loose or missing fastener, it will arrange for a tow to the nearest service center for repair.

Hey, at least they got the bolts on there this time!

3rd Gear: Everyone Is Copying How Elon Talks

Another interesting Tesla story comes from Bloomberg, which has taken notice that everyone is not just copying Tesla’s plans to make attractive and desirable electric cars, but also how Tesla talks them up with ever-grander terminology. Per Bloomberg:

Many of the words speak to the sheer scale of Musk’s ambitions, which are always far grander than people realize initially. A battery factory isn’t just a battery factory, it’s a Gigafactory. (Giga comes from the Greek word “gigas,” or giant.)

A fast charging station for Tesla’s electric cars isn’t just a charging station, it’s a Supercharger. (Tesla has more than 25,000, giving them the largest network in the world.)

The battery packs that Tesla sells to utilities that promise “massive energy storage?” Megapacks.

There are no signs of him stopping. At Tesla’s “Battery Day” in September 2020, Musk talked about reaching “Terawatt-hour” scale battery production. “Tera is the new Giga,” Musk said on stage.

We’ve now reached the point where every battery factory — even those being made by competitors — is called a gigafactory, regardless of its physical size or planned output. “Nissan in advanced talks to build battery gigafactory in UK,” reported the Financial Times. “Stellantis discussing conditions with Rome to build gigafactory in Italy,” said Reuters.

Would Tesla be where it is if everyone just called gigafactories what they are? (They’re just regular factories.)

4th Gear: Toyota Scaling Back Olympic Plans

The Olympics in Japan seem to be still on somebody’s schedule, even if the people of Japan seem less than stoked on a global travel-fest in the midst of a still-ongoing global pandemic. Of course, this has huge implications for … high-profile industrial manufacturing that hopes to use the Olympics as a sales and marketing opportunity! Reuters has a broad report on it, and I’ll just take out this little section on Toyota:

For global sponsor Toyota Motor Corp., the Games were a chance to showcase its latest technology. It had planned to roll out about 3,700 vehicles, including 500 Mirai hydrogen fuel-cell sedans, to shuttle athletes and VIPs among venues.

It also planned to use self-driving pods to carry athletes around the Olympic village.

Such vehicles will still be used, but on a much smaller scale — a “far cry from what we had hoped and envisioned,” a Toyota source said. A full-scale Olympics, the source said, would have been a “grand moment for electric cars.”

A Toyota spokeswoman declined to comment on whether there were any changes to its marketing.

5th Gear: Biden Blocks Trump Plan For Arctic Drilling In Alaska

This is not a total win for climate, but it’s something, as the Financial Times reports:

The Biden administration has announced it will suspend the Arctic oil drilling rights sold in the last days of Donald Trump’s presidency, reversing a signature policy of the previous White House and handing a victory to environmentalists.

[…]

Tuesday’s decision marked a victory for environmentalists and activists, a pillar of Biden’s support in last year’s election, who have begun to grow impatient with some of the White House’s climate actions. The administration recently opted not to intervene to force the closure of the controversial Dakota Access Pipeline and has supported a major Alaska oil project approved during Trump’s term in office.

“In general the Biden administration is acting vigorously on climate change,” said Michael Gerrard, founder of the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia University. “This action on ANWR is quite consistent with that. The actions on the other two projects do not seem so consistent.”

I’ll take anything I can get at this point!

Neutral: How Is Your Car?

My Bug refused to start the other day just as I had loaded the car up for a multi-day road trip. With rain coming down, it refused to start even when I flagged down a ‘90s Infiniti for a jump. I ran out and got a new battery and it did start, but was running like shit until I found a half-bare wire leading to the coil. Some electrical tape later and we were on the road, though I’m still finding the car getting hot and leaking oil around some seals I know I just replaced. Stopping after one mountain pass I saw vapor rising out of one of the two carburetors. Time for a tune-up!

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We Want To Hear Your Electric Car Ownership Stories

Did you own a Ford Ranger EV back in the ‘90s? Do you have a Nissan Leaf in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of miles from a fast charger? Do you keep your Tesla Roadster in Manhattan, even in a blackout? The world of EVs is full of interesting stories, and we want to hear yours!

Every week, we’ll be posting an interview with an owner of an electric vehicle. We want our coverage of EVs to be practical. We want it to represent reality, not the hype that comes from Silicon Valley startups, or the untethered hope of over-eager politicians, or the pessimism of head-in-the-sand retrogrouches who think you just can’t own an EV in this day and age.

That means we want to hear from rural EV owners, from apartment-bound EV owners, first adopters, and veteran drivers.

But to get those stories we need to hear from you! We want to interview you for this site and get your story out. Maybe you worked at one of the California utilities that got EV fleet vehicles decades ago, or you were part of that BMW 1 Series lease program. Half of the world has forgotten these things even existed.

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We want:

Your name
What car do you own? (If you owned a car in the past, let us know what years!)
Where do you live with it?
How and where do you charge it?
How was buying it?
How long have you had it?
How has it lived up to your expectations?
A photo of your car

If you want to be interviewed, please let us know an email with an re: EV Ownership Stories to tips at jalopnik dot com!

Watch a million-dollar sports car destroyed in crash test

Rimac C-Two — Rimac Automobili shares a photo and even a YouTube video of the crash tests of its C-Two electric supercar | Rimac Automobili photos

I’m still not quite over the shock. It’s been around 30 years since I was among a group of American automotive journalists invited to visit Germany to see some of the newest technological innovations developed by Mercedes-Benz and its engineering team.

At one point during our visit, we were led onto a balcony in a large, warehouse-style building, where all of a sudden, lights were flashing and a brand-new and not-yet-on-sale 500 SL was zooming along a track and violently smashed into a concrete barrier.

The horrific sound of the crash reverberated through the building and while parts of the car were scattered about, the dummies riding along where people would otherwise be sitting would have survived with little if any injury.

It was a haunting experience to see a spanking-new, $80,000-plus sports car destroyed in the blink of an eye.

As horrific as it was to see such a car demolished, the same thing takes place for all vehicles offered for public sale, even million-dollar supercars, such as the Rimac C Two electric-powered hypercar, as you can see for yourself:

[embedded content]

Rimac Automobili plans to start production of the C_Two in 2021, and it is crash-testing early versions to verify that they meet global safety standards.

The company employs 800 people in Sveta Nedelja, Croatia, and since its launch has been doing electric engineering consulting with a variety of the world’s automakers in addition to preparing to launch the C_Two.

Part of that process involves instrumented crash tests, and the video shows off-set tests at speeds of 40 km/h (nearly 25 mph) and then at 56 (nearly 35 mph).

“There was no damage to the monocoque, meaning there was next-to-no deforming of the cabin, intrusion of the pedals or excessive forces exerted onto the driver and passenger,” Rimac said.

And these are just the latest cars to be destroyed. Such testing began in 2019.

“This latest full-vehicle physical testing – necessary to finalize the behavior of the carbon composite during an impact – is a confirmation of the virtual modeling,” the company said, adding that 13 prototypes and 5 production cars will be involved in such testing to complete global homologation of the electric-powered sports car.

For more information about the C_Two, visit the Rimac website.

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What’s keeping you from buying an electric vehicle?

EVs — Time to recharge batteries, price of the vehicle and range are the leading reasons by British drivers are reluctant to buy electric vehicles | Castrol illustrations

EVs — Time to recharge batteries, price of the vehicle and range are the leading reasons by British drivers are reluctant to buy electric vehicles | Castrol illustrations

As everyone who has watched Hamilton knows, the colonies once revolted against Mother England and won their independence. And yet the two nations have maintained a sibling relationship, and thus the results of a new study by Castrol provides some insight into the electric car marketplace.

The study, says the British oil company, points to the “tipping points” for electric vehicles to become mainstream in the UK.

Among those tipping points are a purchase price of £24,000 (or $30,000) for an EV, recharging of the battery in 30 minutes, and a range of at least 282 miles.

The study revealed that while people in many countries are willing to pay more for an EV, British drivers are not, which may be one reason that while current projections have EVs in the world’s mainstream in 2024, that milestone isn’t anticipated in the UK until 2025.

Castrol’s motivation for such a survey, it said, is its position as a “global leader” in providing special e-transmission fluids, e-coolants and e-greases for electric vehicles.

The company said the study draws on the views of consumers, fleet managers and automotive industry leaders in the UK.

“The automotive industry has been hit hard by the coronavirus pandemic, but I believe that electric vehicles have a central role to play in powering the sector’s low-carbon recovery,” said Omer Dormen, vice president of Castrol Europe.

“Castrol’s research shows that individual consumers are positive about making the switch to electric, but buyers in the UK expect to do so slightly later than those in other markets, and are keen to pay a bit less.

“As an industry we must focus on the factors that matter most to consumers.”

The full 48-page study, “Accelerating the EVolution” is available at the Castrol website.

Castrol also included in the study research from eight of the world’s “most important” EV markets and identified five “critical challenges” that need to be addressed to promote further growth in the EV market. It also highlighted the different priorities for consumers and fleet managers.

Among the findings:

64 percent of British consumers are taking a “wait-and-see” approach to EVs, and around 60 percent of fleet managers are waiting for their competitors to convert from petroleum to electric power for their vehicles.
Price is the No. 1 priority for consumers, though British consumers want to pay no more than $30,000 while those in other countries would switch at the $36,000 plateau.
62 percent say that maintenance costs could keep them from going electric, to which Castrol notes that “many consumers are unaware that the overall average cost of ownership of an EV over its lifetime tends to be lower than an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle.”
The No. 2 factor delaying purchase is charging times. Nearly 70 percent of consumers said EVs won’t dominate until charging times are the same as those of refueling an ICE.
Range anxiety is real and was No. 3 on the list. What British buyers want is to be able to drive from London to Paris without having to recharge.

“The automotive industry has already demonstrated what it can achieve in response to the coronavirus pandemic, turning its capabilities to producing much needed medical equipment,” said Mandhir Singh, Castrol’s chief executive. “With EV technology constantly improving, the challenge now will be to drive a low-carbon recovery and accelerate the EVolution as quickly as possible.

“Bringing down the cost and charge time for electric vehicles while increasing range, infrastructure and vehicle choice will be critical to persuading consumers to make the switch.”

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Even The Booming Market For Batteries Is Down

Nissan Leaf in production.Photo: Getty Images In addition to the rise of battery-electric lorries like Teslas came a simultaneous increase in lithium-ion battery sales, as manufacturers around the world hurried to satisfy the demand. Crashing electric vehicle sales since of the pandemic likewise hit the battery market, where, for the very first time ever, need is expected to fall this year. Advertisement That scenario is expected to be momentary, since every little thing is also anticipated to ramp back up as nations reopen as well as producing in many places has actually restarted. Still, it’s striking just how swiftly the faucet can slow down to a drip, also in an element of the economic climate that had actually been positively booming.

From Bloomberg: Battery shipments to carmakers are anticipated to drop 14 percent in 2020, as well as the impacts of the slowdown are seen remaining into following year. Significant producers, consisting of South Korea’s LG Chem Ltd., a vendor to Tesla Inc. and also General Motors, have actually reduced annual sales forecasts. Analysts expect the industry’s prepared large expansion of producing ability to decrease. Startups shedding via money as they service potential development technologies are bracing for a tougher sell to safeguard funds.